
Jung Chang - Living through Cultural Revolution and the Crimes of Mao
Dwarkesh PodcastWed Nov 29 2023
Living through the Cultural Revolution:
- Jung Chang's privileged childhood as a communist official's daughter and the impact of the Cultural Revolution on her family, including her father's arrest, torture, and eventual death.
- Her mother's refusal to denounce her husband despite facing tremendous pressure, enduring harrowing experiences such as being made to kneel on broken glass and paraded in public where she was subjected to mistreatment.
- Jung Chang's personal experiences working as a peasant, barefoot doctor, steel worker, and electrician during this tumultuous period while nurturing her desire to write.
Psychology of living in a totalitarian system:
- Intense brainwashing and indoctrination under Mao's rule, leading individuals to idolize Mao with severe consequences for questioning or dissent.
- Complete isolation from alternative information and intense terror that suppressed unorthodox thoughts within Chinese society during that time.
- The discussion delves into the psychology behind living in such a controlled environment, emphasizing fear and propaganda's pivotal roles in shaping people's beliefs and behaviors.
Criticism of Mao's policies:
- Jung Chang provides firsthand accounts illustrating widespread starvation during the Great Leap Forward era. She recalls personal encounters witnessing instances of extreme hunger around her, including incidents involving theft due to starvation and tragic deaths within impoverished families.
- Specific examples highlighting personal guilt experienced by individuals who witnessed suffering caused by famine during this period are shared, shedding light on psychological impacts beyond mere statistics.
Living through Cultural Revolution and the Crimes of Mao:
- Jung Chang describes her experiences growing up during the Cultural Revolution, detailing how families had to collect urine for sustenance and endure starvation.
- The conversation delves into Xi Jinping's similar experience as a high communist official's son being denounced and purged. It addresses his speeches advocating a return to Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong thought despite his personal suffering.
Modern Support of Mao:
- The discussion explores why some Chinese leaders and officials, despite their own or their parents' suffering during the Cultural Revolution, continue to support Mao and the Communist Party.
- It addresses reasons such as identifying Mao with the rule of the Communist Party, desire for one-party dictatorship privileges, financial benefits associated with party affiliation, and indoctrination among children of old communists.
Respect for Mao in China:
- The conversation analyzes factors contributing to continued respect for Mao in China, including historical context, fading memories of past pain, absence of alternative ideologies or religions, disillusionment with post-Mao era societal issues, and state-promoted glorification of Mao.
Impact of Books on Understanding History:
- Jung Chang discusses how her books "Wild Swans" and her biography of Mao have impacted understanding history by providing access to banned literature in China before 2012/2013.
- She explains that since then, there has been a clampdown on banned literature in China under Xi's regime, limiting access to critical historical information.
Attitudes Towards Communism in Western Academia:
- The podcast examines attitudes within Western academia towards communist regimes like Stalinist Russia and Cuba. It questions motivations behind excusing atrocities committed by these regimes.
Mao's Impact on China:
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Kissinger and Nixon's influence: The speaker challenges the notion that Kissinger and Nixon were responsible for opening up China, emphasizing that it was mainly due to internal political events such as Lin Biao's collapse and Mao losing control of the army. This sheds light on the complexities of China's geopolitical shifts during that time.
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Deng Xiaoping's role in post-Mao era: The discussion highlights Deng Xiaoping's significance in leading China into an era of openness after Mao's death, allowing for economic growth and improved living standards. This showcases how leadership changes shaped China's trajectory towards global engagement.
Psychological Warfare during Cultural Revolution:
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Mao's psychological tactics: The conversation delves into Mao's use of criticism and self-criticism meetings to induce discomfort and animosity among individuals, effectively preventing organized opposition. It reveals the extent of psychological manipulation employed by Mao to maintain control over his population.
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Impact on family dynamics: Personal experiences are shared regarding being criticized for displaying warmth towards family members, reflecting societal norms manipulated under Mao’s regime. This illustrates how emotional connections were condemned as anti-Maoist sentiments, impacting familial relationships.
Social Pressure and Moral Dilemmas:
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Coerced incrimination within communities: The speakers discuss how individuals were pressured into denouncing others or facing consequences themselves, leading to moral dilemmas and internal conflicts. This underscores the pervasive social pressure and fear instilled within communities during that time.
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Reservoir of support for communist ideas: Historical factors contributing to widespread acceptance of communist ideology in China are addressed, highlighting Stalin's role in supporting Mao’s rise to power through military intervention. This provides insight into the complex geopolitical landscape facilitating communist dominance in China.
Cultural Revolution Compared to Contemporary Movements:
- Incomparable nature of movements: A comparison is drawn between recent events in Western countries and the severity of the Cultural Revolution in China. By detailing the immense destruction caused by the latter, including deprivation of cultural expressions like books and cinemas for a decade, it underscores that these are fundamentally different experiences.