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#396 – James Sexton: Divorce Lawyer on Marriage, Relationships, Sex, Lies & Love

Lex Fridman Podcast

Sun Sep 17 2023



Love and Relationships:

  • James Sexton believes that disconnection is the most common reason marriages fail.
  • He emphasizes the importance of understanding what causes disconnection in a relationship.
  • He encourages introspection to identify when disconnection began and how it evolved.
  • Sexton highlights the need for open and honest communication in relationships.
  • He suggests that couples should be willing to expose their vulnerabilities to each other.
  • Sexton believes that couples should appreciate and remember the good times in their relationship, even if it ends in tragedy or drama.

Betrayal and Infidelity:

  • Sexton acknowledges the hurt and anger caused by betrayal, but also encourages forgiveness and appreciation of the positive moments shared in a relationship.
  • He questions whether infidelity indicates deeper issues within the relationship itself.
  • Sexton believes that infidelity often occurs when there are unmet needs or disconnect between partners.

Choosing Vulnerability:

  • Sexton compares vulnerability in relationships to the practice of jiu-jitsu, where creating vulnerabilities leads to progress and growth.
  • He argues that being vulnerable allows for genuine connection with a partner.
  • Sexton advises against hiding parts of oneself from a partner, as it prevents experiencing true love and intimacy.

Remembering the Good Times:

  • Sexton urges individuals to choose how they remember past relationships, focusing on the positive moments rather than dwelling on negative experiences.
  • He mentions that memory can sometimes highlight negative aspects, but actively choosing to remember joyful moments can lead to more positive perspectives on past relationships.

Appreciating Life's Absurdity:

  • Sexton finds humor in life's absurdities, including love and sex.
  • He suggests laughing at oneself and not taking life too seriously, especially when it comes to romantic relationships.

Jujitsu Metaphor:

  • Sexton uses a jujitsu metaphor to explain the importance of vulnerability and creating opportunities in relationships.
  • He compares giving something to get something in relationships to making moves in jujitsu that create leverage and progress.

Choosing Joy:

  • Sexton encourages individuals to find joy in their relationships, even when faced with challenges or betrayals.
  • He believes that choosing joy and appreciating the good times can help overcome negative experiences.

The Complexity of Relationships:

  • Sexton emphasizes that relationships are complex and cannot be simplified into categories of "good guys" and "bad guys."
  • He acknowledges his role as a divorce lawyer representing both sides, which requires him to understand each person's perspective without assigning blame.

Radical Empathy:

  • Sexton practices radical empathy by putting himself in his clients' shoes and understanding their stories from their point of view.
  • He believes that true understanding comes from empathizing with all parties involved, including those who have made mistakes or caused harm.

Memory and Selective Recall:

  • Sexton discusses how memory can be selective, highlighting positive moments while fading negative ones over time.
  • He suggests actively choosing how we remember past relationships, focusing on the beautiful moments rather than dwelling on painful experiences.

Laughing at Love's Absurdity:

  • Sexton finds love to be absurd and hilarious, comparing it to the humbling moment after finishing masturbating.
  • He encourages laughter and not taking love too seriously, recognizing its inherent silliness.

Divorce Cases:

  • People often try to pretend that their affair partner is just a friend, but this approach undermines their credibility.
  • Some people are more honest about their extramarital affairs and own up to them during legal proceedings.
  • Admitting fault or issues in the relationship can help take power out of accusations made by the other party.

Text Messages and Communication:

  • Text messages can be used as evidence in divorce cases and can have a significant impact on how a person is perceived.
  • Text messages should ideally be used for simple communication rather than substantive discussions or arguments.
  • The permanence of text messages makes it important to think before sending emotionally charged texts.

Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Case:

  • The public trial between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard showcased the flaws and dysfunction that can exist within relationships.
  • Both parties had moments where their behavior looked awful, which led many to question why they stayed together in the first place.

Successful Relationships:

  • Successful relationships require connection, affection, presence, mindfulness, and being able to balance individuality with shared experiences.
  • Friendship is an essential component of successful romantic relationships, where there is trust, support, and mutual understanding.

Relationships with High Performers:

  • High-performing individuals often have routines, discipline, focus, and specific preferences.
  • Divorce can disrupt the control high performers are used to having over their lives.
  • Financial success or fame does not guarantee an easy divorce process; divorces still require going through the emotional challenges regardless of wealth or status.

Cost of Divorce:

  • The cost of a divorce can vary greatly depending on the complexity of the case and the willingness of both parties to negotiate.
  • A simple uncontested divorce with minimal assets and no child custody issues can be relatively inexpensive, while high-conflict divorces involving extensive litigation can be quite costly.
  • It is difficult to provide an exact range for the cost of a divorce as it depends on various factors such as legal fees, court costs, expert witnesses, and any additional services required.

Importance of Individual Development:

  • Successful relationships often involve individuals who have developed their own sense of self outside of the relationship.
  • Taking time for personal growth, maintaining individual interests and friendships, and fostering independence are important aspects in maintaining a healthy partnership.

Handling Conflict:

  • Successful relationships require effective communication and conflict resolution skills.
  • Couples should strive to address conflicts openly and honestly, focusing on finding solutions rather than placing blame or becoming defensive.
  • Seeking professional help through therapy or counseling can be beneficial in learning constructive ways to handle conflict.

Maintaining Intimacy:

  • Intimacy is an essential component of successful romantic relationships. This includes physical intimacy as well as emotional connection and vulnerability.
  • Couples should prioritize spending quality time together, engaging in activities that foster closeness and understanding.
  • Regularly expressing love, appreciation, and affection towards one another helps maintain intimacy within the relationship.

Building Trust:

  • Trust is crucial in successful relationships. Both partners need to feel secure knowing that they can rely on each other emotionally and dependably.
  • Honesty, transparency, and consistent follow-through on commitments are key elements in building trust.
  • Open communication about needs, boundaries, and expectations helps establish a foundation of trust within the relationship.

Balancing Independence and Togetherness:

  • Successful relationships find a balance between maintaining individuality and fostering a sense of togetherness.
  • Each partner should have their own interests, hobbies, and personal goals outside of the relationship.
  • At the same time, couples should prioritize quality time together, shared experiences, and mutual support.

Emotional Support:

  • Being emotionally supportive is crucial in successful relationships.
  • Partners should be there for each other during both good times and challenging moments, offering empathy, understanding, and validation.
  • Active listening, showing compassion, and providing reassurance can strengthen emotional bonds.

Shared Values and Goals:

  • Having shared values and common long-term goals helps create a strong foundation for a successful relationship.
  • Couples should discuss their aspirations, dreams, and expectations for the future to ensure compatibility.
  • Open communication about values such as trust, honesty, commitment, family or career aspirations promotes alignment in the relationship.

Flexibility and Adaptability:

  • Successful relationships require flexibility and adaptability to navigate life's changes together.
  • Partners should be willing to compromise when necessary and make adjustments to accommodate evolving circumstances.
  • Embracing change with an open mind fosters growth individually and as a couple.

Continual Effort:

  • Maintaining a successful relationship requires ongoing effort from both partners.
  • Regularly expressing love, appreciation, gratitude, and respect strengthens the bond between individuals.
  • Actively working on communication skills, problem-solving strategies, intimacy building techniques contributes to long-term relationship satisfaction.

Fighting in a Relationship:

  • There is no set amount of fighting that is considered "okay" in a relationship
  • It depends on the individuals and their preferences for conflict resolution
  • Some couples may have frequent arguments but still maintain a healthy and strong connection
  • The key is to ensure that fights are resolved in a respectful and constructive manner
  • Disrespectful language, insults, degradation, or brutality towards one another should be avoided

Different Types of Infidelity:

  • Soulmate infidelity: when someone believes they have found their true love outside of their current relationship
  • Push out of the closet infidelity: occurs when someone who has been hiding their sexual orientation enters into a same-sex affair after being caught or deciding to come out
  • Mistake infidelity: refers to impulsive actions or poor impulse control leading to an affair without any intention to hurt or betray the partner

Open Marriages:

  • Open relationships can be attempted as a way to address dissatisfaction with one's sex life within the primary partnership
  • However, open relationships can often lead to complications and misunderstandings if not approached carefully and with clear communication
  • Novelty and excitement from new connections can sometimes overshadow the needs of the primary partner, creating tension and feelings of insecurity

Soulmates in Relationships:

  • The idea of finding a soulmate who fulfills every aspect of one's life is unrealistic
  • No person can be everything to their partner all the time, as imperfections are inevitable in any relationship
  • Love is more about never wanting to disappoint or hurt each other intentionally rather than expecting perfection from one another

Resolving Fights in Relationships:

  • Each couple has different ways of resolving conflicts based on their own dynamics and preferences
  • Respectful communication, active listening, empathy, compromise, and understanding are important elements in resolving fights constructively

Jiu-Jitsu:

  • The speaker started practicing martial arts at a young age and took up jiu-jitsu later in life.
  • Jiu-jitsu provides a sense of connection and helps manage stress.
  • The speaker has trained under different professors, including Lou Ventolaro and Marcelo Garcia.
  • Jiu-jitsu teaches humility and the impossibility of perfecting it.
  • There was a conflict between the speaker and Gordon Ryan in the past, but the speaker respects him as an athlete.

Divorce Law:

  • Divorce lawyers often get a bad reputation because they are associated with unpleasant chapters in people's lives.
  • Some divorce lawyers may amplify conflicts for financial gain, but good lawyers prioritize fair resolutions.
  • Honesty is important in relationships, but there is a distinction between honesty and candor. It is not necessary to be completely candid about certain things.
  • Financial issues can cause significant stress in relationships, which can lead to divorces. Different approaches to finances can create power dynamics within couples.

Productivity:

  • The speaker wakes up naturally at 4 am every day and checks his phone for work emergencies.
  • He works out for an hour, alternating between weights and cardio exercises.
  • After working out, he uses a sauna or steam room followed by a cold plunge or shower.
  • He has breakfast, usually following a slow-carb diet similar to Tim Ferriss' recommendations.
  • His workday consists of drafting legal documents until court begins around 9:00 am. Court conferences can be exhausting due to their fast pace and constant focus on multiple cases.

Honesty in Relationships:

  • Being honest is important, but being completely candid about certain topics can be indelicate or mean-spirited.
  • There is value in rising above negativity when discussing ex-partners or difficult topics related to appearance or personal matters.

Gordon Ryan Conflict:

  • The speaker has never met Gordon Ryan before.
  • Gordon was online and made negative comments about someone the speaker sponsored.
  • The speaker got upset and reached out to John and Tom DeBlass to ask them to tell Gordon to stop talking negatively about the person they sponsor.
  • There was an exchange of obnoxious comments between the speaker and Gordon on Facebook.
  • The speaker later felt gross about their behavior towards a young person like Gordon.

Love's Role in Human Condition:

  • Love is everything, it plays a huge role in the human condition.
  • Wars are fought for romantic love, empires fall because of romantic love.
  • Love takes down kings, it's something that everyone is chasing after.
  • Romantic love, sex, and romance are all interconnected and have a significant impact on individuals' lives.
  • Many actions that people take can be traced back to their desire for love or attraction.

Relationships as Great Equalizers:

  • Relationships and breakups are great equalizers among people regardless of their status or achievements.
  • Even celebrities and successful individuals face similar issues in relationships such as infidelity, insecurities, fights, etc.
  • Despite success in other areas of life, many people struggle with relationships due to various personal issues like intimacy problems or parental influences.

The Beauty and Messiness of Love:

  • People continue pursuing love despite past failures or heartbreaks.
  • Love is worth taking risks for even though there may be pain involved.
  • It brings joy, satisfaction, growth, vulnerability, and connection into people's lives.
  • Divorce can be seen as an opportunity for radical reinvention and growth rather than just a negative event.

Importance of Perspective in Divorce:

  • The speaker emphasizes the importance of perspective when going through divorce.
  • Regretting being with someone should be balanced by acknowledging the positive aspects that came from that relationship (e.g., children).
  • Divorce can lead to blessings and unexpected positive outcomes.
  • The speaker suggests using psychedelic experiences like psilocybin or MDMA as a potential transformative tool in divorce mediation, promoting empathy and connection.

Finding the Right Lid:

  • It is important to let go of jealousy and bitterness when seeing an ex-partner find happiness with someone else.
  • There is a lid for every pot, meaning there is a suitable partner out there for everyone.
  • People should focus on finding the right match rather than forcing incompatible relationships.

Quote from Rumi:

  • The podcast ends with a quote from Rumi about seeking love by removing barriers within oneself.