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Discovering Yourself In Tragedy: Steph Catudal On Love, Grief, Healing & Finding Meaning in Life’s Profound Moments

The Rich Roll Podcast

Sun Oct 15 2023



Religion and Spirituality:

  • Raised in the LDS (Mormon) religion, but felt disconnected from herself within the religion
  • Experienced a loss of faith and rejection of spirituality after her father's death
  • Encountered a bishop who responded compassionately when she was honest about her struggles

Relationships and Addiction:

  • Attracted to extreme personalities in relationships
  • Engaged in partying and substance use as a way to cope with grief, rebellion, and seeking connection
  • Struggled with guilt for leading others away from sobriety while not having an addictive personality herself

Parenting Through Tragedy:

  • Faced challenges in communicating with her children about Rives' illness
  • Struggled with finding the balance between protecting them and being open about the severity of the situation
  • Learned that it is impossible to navigate this perfectly and that each child responds differently
  • Modeled vulnerability and allowed her children to comfort her during difficult moments

Embracing Sadness:

  • Explored the importance of allowing oneself to feel sadness as part of the human experience
  • Learned that sadness can coexist alongside other emotions like love, joy, fear, etc.
  • Challenged societal expectations around always striving for happiness or perfection

Finding Meaning and Healing:

  • Experienced moments of transcendental love during Rives' illness that defied explanation
  • Felt connected to something greater than herself
  • Described these experiences as spiritual even though she questioned their nature
  • Considered the presence of her deceased father or some form of divine intervention
  • Ultimately defined it as love regardless of what name or label is given

The power of love:

  • A nurse wrote a letter about how the palpable love between Steph and her husband transformed her idea of love.
  • Steph felt like she was a conduit for transferring love into her husband during his illness.

Taking responsibility for personal growth:

  • Steph had to transition from relying on her husband to take care of everything to taking responsibility for her own growth and well-being.
  • She also had to navigate being a mother while dealing with grief and suffering herself.

The importance of complementary emotions:

  • Steph learned that it's okay to feel strong and weak at the same time, anger and gratitude at the same time.
  • Accepting these complementary emotions made her feel more powerful.

Choosing to become stronger in tragedy:

  • Steph believes that people have the choice to become their best selves in the worst times.
  • Recognizing the power within oneself can lead to personal growth even in difficult circumstances.

Time malleability and memories as anchors:

  • Memories are always happening and can be accessed at any moment.
  • Time slows down or speeds up depending on the extremity of one's experiences.

Accessing gratitude and awareness outside of tragedy:

  • Steph struggles with maintaining feelings of gratitude and awareness when life is good.
  • She seeks advice on how to access those feelings without being in extreme circumstances.

Tommy Rivs' relationship with time and alternative ways of energy transference:

  • Tommy experienced a unique relationship with time while he was in a coma.
  • Without his ability to absorb energy from others through running, he struggled with being around people after his illness.

The quantum aspect of reality and different dimensions:

  • Rives lived lifetimes in his coma, experiencing different families and lives.
  • Steph is interested in the quantum aspect of reality and how it relates to time and memory.

Love existing in liminal spaces:

  • Life exists between extremes, not just good or evil, right or wrong.
  • The best parts of life are found in the gray areas, the liminal spaces.

Self-love and acceptance:

  • The book explores self-acceptance as a core idea.
  • It's about accepting all aspects of oneself, including the broken pieces that ultimately make a person stronger.

Relationship with shame:

  • Steph tries not to dwell in shame because it was ingrained in her through her religious upbringing.
  • She wants to teach her children the difference between guilt (actionable) and shame (a dead end).

Universal love:

  • The book explores the concept of universal love as reflected by the actions of others.
  • Steph believes that recognizing love within oneself allows for seeing love all around us.