PodcastsAll-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & FriedbergAll-In Summit: Nuclear fusion and the potential for energy abundance

All-In Summit: Nuclear fusion and the potential for energy abundance
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & FriedbergThu Sep 21 2023
Energy Demand and Production:
- Forecasters estimate that energy production and demand on Earth will grow to roughly 2x from current levels by the end of the century.
- GDP per capita is a good indicator of energy consumption per capita, with a 1% increase in GDP per capita resulting in a 1.2% increase in energy consumption per capita.
- Based on population and GDP growth projections, it is estimated that we will need to produce 5 times more energy than currently produced on Earth by the end of the century.
- Pumping oil and gas out of the ground alone cannot meet this increased demand for energy.
- Fusion presents an opportunity to leverage the technology of the sun and scale up renewable systems quickly.
Introduction of Speakers:
- Commonwealth Fusion Energy CEO Robert Mumgaard and Helion Energy CEO David Kirtley are invited to speak at the All-In Summit '23.
- Bob Mumgaard founded Commonwealth Fusion Systems, which was spun out of MIT where he got his PhD in applied plasma physics. The company has raised over $2 billion from global investors.
- David Kirtley founded Helion Energy after years of experience as a principal investigator and fusion lead at MSNW. He also worked as a scientist for the Air Force Research Lab.
Presentation by Robert Mumgaard:
- Fusion reactions are responsible for building every atom in the universe, making it one of the most prevalent reactions in existence.
- Fusion reactions produce about 200 million times more energy per mass used than chemical reactions like burning oil or gas, making them highly efficient.
- Building fusion machines that can replicate these reactions is crucial for achieving clean and abundant energy production.
- Commonwealth Fusion Systems has made significant progress in building fusion machines, including their prototype machine called Spark, which aims to achieve more power output than input (Q greater than 1).
- The company's long-term plan involves manufacturing fusion machines at scale and creating a new type of power plant that can generate electricity without emissions or the need for traditional fuels.
Presentation by David Kirtley:
- Helion Energy's approach to fusion is called magneto-inertial fusion, which combines elements of magnetic confinement and inertial confinement approaches.
- The company uses a cylinder-shaped system where fuel is injected on either end, accelerated to a central compression area, and then compressed using pulsed electric currents.
- Helion Energy has successfully built several fusion machines and achieved high temperatures and densities necessary for fusion reactions.
- The company focuses on recapturing energy from the fusion process with high efficiency, aiming to minimize capital costs and achieve low-cost electricity production.
- Helion Energy has received funding from Microsoft for a 50 megawatt power plant project in Washington State, which is expected to come online in 2028.
Discussion on Price per Kilowatt Hour:
- The goal for both companies is to achieve cost competitiveness in the energy market.
- Commonwealth Fusion Systems aims to reach a price per kilowatt hour of one cent or less once their fusion technology is scaled up at large commercial plants.
- Helion Energy also targets low-cost electricity production, with a focus on reducing capital costs through efficient energy recovery systems.
Chances of Success and Implications for Global Warming:
- Both speakers express confidence in the success of fusion technology within the next 20 years.
- They believe that fusion will play a significant role in addressing global warming concerns and meeting future energy needs.
- However, they emphasize the importance of continuing efforts to transition to clean energy sources beyond just fusion, as the scale of energy demand requires multiple solutions.
Allocation of Resources and Government Funding:
- There is discussion about whether enough resources are being allocated towards fusion research and development.
- It is suggested that more government funding should be directed towards this field due to its potential impact on solving energy challenges.
- Venture capitalists have shown interest in investing in fusion companies, but larger-scale funding from sovereign wealth funds may be necessary to support the industry's growth.
Challenges of Public Acceptance and Regulation:
- The speakers acknowledge that public acceptance and regulatory challenges are significant for implementing fusion technology.
- Efforts are being made to address these challenges by engaging with the public, showing hardware progress, and promoting transparency about risks and benefits.
- Recent regulatory rulings have been favorable for fusion technology, such as the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's decision to regulate fusion power plants like particle accelerators rather than fission plants.
- Both speakers highlight the need for speed in regulatory processes to accelerate the deployment of fusion power plants.
Technology Advancements Enabling Fusion Development:
- Advances in plasma physics and predictive capabilities have improved understanding and feasibility of fusion reactions.
- Adjacent technologies such as magnets and high-power electronics have benefited from investments over the years, making them more suitable for fusion applications.
- Advanced manufacturing techniques play a crucial role in turning software designs into functional hardware components needed for fusion machines.
Importance of Timeframe and Energy Transition:
- The urgency to transition to clean energy sources is emphasized due to increasing carbon emissions and growing energy demands.
- The timeframe for achieving low-cost fusion power is seen as critical, especially considering the scale of infrastructure changes required globally.